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Mortgage modification hell
Blogger details frustrations she's encountered as she tries to save her home.
This guest post comes from Andrea at Fools and Sages.
For the record, I’ve all but given up trying to get my mortgage modified after a job loss at the end of March.
My family is a perfect example of the type of family I would have thought would be a shoe-in for a modification -- we were fine when I was working, making our payments without any trouble, darn near perfect credit, just about as regular as a family can be.
The modification program was pretty straightforward, but I’ve read too much online, talked to friends, and have my own experiences, and I’m here to tell you that the bottom line is that the banks that are receiving this government money do not want to talk to you. They would rather wait until you go into foreclosure, figuring you will do whatever it takes -- take on more debt, raid your retirement account, borrow from family -- to make your payments if you can, and that means they’re still getting paid.
I know this is true because a rep from my lender flat out said to me, when I said there was a limit to how long we could stretch our reserves while they put me off for months on end, “Well, let’s think of it this way -- if this bailout WASN’T in place, what would you do?”
I’ll admit, my response probably wasn’t perfect. I believe it was along the lines of, “You did NOT just say that to me, did you?” But that didn’t even cause him to miss a beat, really. His response was (paraphrased), “No, really. You would find a way to pay your bills. Why just because this program is out do you think you deserve any expedited treatment? Other people are worse off.”
Considering that this was four months after I had started trying to get this done and hadn’t even been assigned a caseworker, I thought that was a pretty interesting conversation.
I have been trying to send in my documentation since the beginning of April. All we need is to have an adjustment to bring us to 31% of our gross income, which would make enough of a difference for us to be fine until things settle out. It’s not that difficult (something I also maybe shouldn’t have said but did) and I even offered to figure out the payment and resulting interest rate for him.
In the same conversation, I was also told that the program was very complicated and it had taken a while for this very large bank to figure out how to implement it. I asked him how exactly it was complicated, and he told me that it was difficult to explain.
I asked him if it really was and then said, “Here, let me give it a shot: You take your gross income, and multiply it by 0.31. That is what the new monthly payment would be for five years, which would be achieved probably by adjusting the interest rate. You need to include my HOA fee, hazard insurance and property taxes in that figure but you ARE allowed to exclude private mortgage insurance -- but, for the record, we don’t have any. You are responsible for whatever difference in that amount brings you to 38% of my gross income, which isn’t much, and then the government subsidizes whatever it takes to bring us to 31%. The program only covers debt from first mortgages, not second mortgages or credit card debt. Does that about sum it up?”
The conversation went downhill from there, after the two or three seconds of silence on his end that I took with at least a little bit of satisfaction.
It is infuriating and distressing, and the only consolation I have -- and I am incredibly grateful for it -- is that I do have a support system that we can fall back on if we really need to. I can’t imagine what kind of stress is being experienced by Americans who have gone well beyond squeaking by and are without incomes altogether, and it makes me think the sentiment expressed in this article about a protest outside congressional discussions about the effectiveness of homeowner rescue programs is dead on:
While applauding the Obama administration for getting the Home Affordable Modification Program up and running, some questioned whether the $75 billion being paid to mortgage servicers would do more good if instead it was lent to homeowners, especially the growing ranks of the jobless.
“Getting a homeowner’s DTI [debt-to-income] ratio to 31 percent won’t help the unemployed, since 31 percent of their income is zero,” said Paul Willen, a senior economist and policy adviser at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.
Irwin Trauss, supervising attorney at Philadelphia Legal Assistance, told the oversight panel that money repaid by lenders who took Troubled Asset Relief Program money might be used to structure a national program along the lines of the Pennsylvania Homeowners’ Emergency Mortgage Assistance Program. That program provides loans to unemployed Pennsylvanians facing foreclosure to help them make mortgage payments until they return to work.
Hmm.
I know there’s plenty of debate in other arenas about the government’s ability to provide timely assistance to anyone, with visions of people dying in hospital hallways and such, but if what we’re seeing in the mortgage industry right now is indicative of the efficiency of the market, I don’t think I can accept that bit of soshulizm fear. Actually, the banks are being very efficient -- about spending as little as possible to not modify mortgages. That’s sure how it looks to me, anyway, and to the people I’ve spoken to in similar situations. If there’s a problem with our perception, the banks sure aren’t doing much to remedy it.
Oh, and a little addition to my own saga: I received a letter dated Sept. 1 stating that if I didn’t send in all of my documentation again (this would be the third time -- crazy how stuff gets lost, isn’t it?) plus one other document, in one single package by Oct. 1, I would be thrown out of the system altogether and would have to start the whole process over again.
Almost six months of being put off, ignored, told to call back in 30 or 60 days, or please not to call at all, “we’ll call you,” and then I get a letter saying that if I don’t send in documents to their random fax machine within their arbitrary time period, we have to start over.
Is it any wonder Americans are upset at banks?
Note from Karen: Andrea’s post appeared at Fools and Sages on Sept. 24. Here is an update from her:
As of the beginning of November, the situation has deteriorated to the point of denial. They have determined that ours is a "temporary hardship," and that we couldn't make the payment proposed, which is interesting because we also submitted a budget that clearly showed that we could.
They did offer to do a forbearance, which would reduce our payment for a few months, but again, this is because they're betting I'll get a job. They don't want to take any kind of permanent hit at all, even if the government is bearing the brunt of the cost.
Related reading at Fools and Sages:
What exactly is there to learn from nickles, do you think? I mean, it's great that the effort was made to give that side, but let's break down a couple of the points made:
When I started doing this work, the turn time was 2 months - now it is over 4 months simply because of the volume of loans and the time it takes to get a modification done adds to the turn time.
Not sure how that's the borrower's problem. I'll bet it never took four months to GET a loan.
If you can
show an immediate hardship - we work with you.
Like the loss of an income? That's immediate.
Thats correct, we cant really
modify a loan for someone who is unemployed.
But over and over I've read about people going from two incomes to one income, including in this original post. Not two to zero, not one to zero. There is still income.
That is because there is
no way to determine what that persons long-term financial situation is.
And yet, if you go to the loansafe.org forums, there are dozens of comments about "temporary hardship." By saying that, banks are indeed making a determination, aren't they?
Most lenders are not modifying loans with their own money, there is usually a secondary investor. Lets say I loan you $50 and you agree to pay me back $5/mo. Then you fall on hard times and can only pay me back $2/mo. I might be willing to negotiate that. But what if I had taken out a bank loan for that $50 and I have to pay them that $5 every month? Guess what? I still have to pay that bank back regardless of your circumstances. Now imagine I have to pay the bank back $5/mo for a million people who are only paying me $2/mo. I would be bankrupt quickly - which is what has happened to many mortgage companies.
Sorry, how is that the homeowner's fault? Seems like a risk the investor took on, a risk of LOSS.
I understand it is frustrating to have
to send in your documents over and over again but I assure you, they ar
enot getting lost. This government program requires us to use income
documentation dated within 60-90 days. If the lender i 120+ days out,
then yes, we will need updated docs.
So hire more people. We know you have the money, we've seen the bonuses in the news. And, I'm also not quite sure how that's the borrower's problem.
Tuesday, November 03, 2009
To Whom It May Concern:
I have been trying to receive some sort of help from the very beginning since October 2008. I called before we were even thirty days late to warn Chase Home Finance LLC that my Wife had taken ill and that work for me was slowing down, I was told that I needed to wait at lease three months before anyone would even entertain the fact that I needed help. Well my situation did turn for the worst. My wife was hospitalized for severe mental state of depression and my income has gotten worst.
I proceeded to contact Homeowner’s Assistance department, I was told that there was nothing they can do at this time to just send a Hardship letter. A representative by the name of Suzette would call me but to no avail, I called numerous time trying to contact Miss. Suzette at extension 0844 and the only thing I received was a recording telling me to fax over a Hardship letter and my budget plan.
No one would return my phone calls; no one seemed to want to help me. This was starting to sit bad with me because I am a recovering alcoholic and it literally made me go back out and drink, nevertheless I continues to press on in my program of recovery to help me get back on my feet, during all this I also continued to press on with you all calling Suzette at extension 0844 and getting no where, finally I was given the number to a Miss. Darla Hopkins at 1-800-848-9117 extension 1075, then after calling numerous times again no return call and no help.
I was now given another person to contact who was suppose to make a difference by the name of Gibson at number 614- 422- 7259 again I would leave message after massages and to no avail. After using all the resources that had been given to me I still felt I was fighting a loosing battle.
In February 04, 2009 I received from your Quality Assurance Department a survey as I explained in the above paragraph proceeded to also write on 02/23/09 my complaint to your Quality Assurance dept. I have kept all the names of everybody who I have spoken to.
I finally spoke to someone who claim they received my paper work, His name Mr. Deus Gunza at 800-848-9117 ext1204, I told Him that I hope He can make a difference in my life because I would like to get the help that I needed to be able to keep my home, well unfortunately now the house is not worth what it was worth which was 215.000.00, now the homes in my area are selling form 90,000.00 to 130,000.00 thank to the financial down fall and the economy.
Mr. Gunza told me that because my Wife was on unemployment that she didn’t qualify to be in my budget plan, I thought about what He said and then I said to myself why would I need my wife in my budget when She was not on my loan nevertheless He asked me to send Him a letter requesting under His advisement to be enrolled into a Special Forbearance Plan.
Mr. Ganza said that after paying three monthly payments of 608.00 a month I needed to wait until the modification paper work to be sent to me.
I called and spoke again to make sure that I understood what I was doing I asked Mr. Gunza if I needed to pay anything else after my modification because the letter stated that after the proposed forbearance period that regular payments will become due in addition to any delinquent payments, fees and or charges. I asked Him that I did not want to see any foreclose proceedings started and that what I should do, Mr. Ganza told me to wait not to pay anything because they were working on my modification. So here we go again I’m calling and asking why this is taking so long no one can give me an answer I am being put on hold Mr. Ganza is never available well after two months of trying to get a hold of someone before I was told that Mr. Ganza was no longer handling my file that a Miss. Jill Jaynes would be I called her many time and I could never reach Her.
I finally reach someone who told me that a Miss. Julie Shelley will contact me and that not to do nothing but just wait till I here from Her, again but to no avail. I hav
The banks and the government is not there to help you!! What they do best is to take your money and hoard it for their own use. Nothing evil is hidden from the Lord. Obama, you and your bank henchmen will stand before God and give accounts of your dirty deeds. In the mean time good people,
trust in the Lord and not in obama or the banks.
Well, as someone who actually underwrites these modifications for a mortgage servicer, I can understand your frustrations. We hear it all day long. But, as with all things, there are two sides to every story. Sometimes, it is just a matter of putting things into perspective.
1 - it isnt a matter of not wanting to work with you, whether your account is current or delinquent. You say 4 months? Guess what - that is just how long the turn time is. If you call your credit card company and they say the hold time is estimated to be 15 minutes - thats because there are that many people in line in front of you. And the line for modifications continues to grow. When I started doing this work, the turn time was 2 months - now it is over 4 months simply because of the volume of loans and the time it takes to get a modification done adds to the turn time.
2 - Thats correct that it can be harder to qualify for a modification of the loan is current. If you can show an immediate hardship - we work with you. Unfortunately, we see many borrowers applying for a modification just because Obama says they can have one. But oh yes, they have $30k in a deposit account (and no - we do not count retirement funds) and have $3k left over in disposable income every month after paying all their bills. Guess what? We arent trying to help that borrower. This is not to belittle the people with legitimate hardship, but it is unfortunate that many people just feel entitled to a modification - not because they actually need it. You can blame some of these borrowers for why it takes 4 months for us to get to your loan. We spend just as much time on them as the people that actually need help.
3 - thats correct, we cant really modify a loan for someone who is unemployed. That is because there is no way to determine what that persons long-term financial situation is. What if unemployment runs out and you still dont have a job? No modified payment will be affordable and doing a modification may just be delaying the inevitable. We need proof of continuance of income - and that isnt there with UE.
4 - Yes, it seems silly that a lender would take a large loss doing a short sale instead of modifying a loan but sometimes it takes a short lesson in secondary markets and an explanation of leverage. Most lenders are not modifying loans with their own money, there is usually a secondary investor. Lets say I loan you $50 and you agree to pay me back $5/mo. Then you fall on hard times and can only pay me back $2/mo. I might be willing to negotiate that. But what if I had taken out a bank loan for that $50 and I have to pay them that $5 every month? Guess what? I still have to pay that bank back regardless of your circumstances. Now imagine I have to pay the bank back $5/mo for a million people who are only paying me $2/mo. I would be bankrupt quickly - which is what has happened to many mortgage companies.
Yes, you can argue that the housing stimulus is supplementing that $3 of lost revenue. That is true (in simplified terms) but it is not without caveat. Despite some opinions, the program is not designed to just hand out money. Uncle Same wants to make sure it is only helping those in need. And, as with any government program, there are very specific guidelines that must be followed. As a lender, we cannot afford to bend the rules and risk not getting that payment.
5 - I understand it is frustrating to have to send in your documents over and over again but I assure you, they ar enot getting lost. This government program requires us to use income documentation dated within 60-90 days. If the lender i 120+ days out, then yes, we will need updated docs. That is in fairness to the borrower as well. How would you like us making a decision on your modification using paystubs that are 6 months old? In this economy - that could mean a world of difference in income.
And yes, it seems heartless to send a letter lilke that - but there is a purpose. If we are ready to underwrite a modification because a loan has now come up next in our queu - then we ne
Hey Wells Fargo, I’m warming up the hot tub!
“ It is not our company policy….to use foreclosed beach estates to host parties......” The truth is, banks don’t care about anyone or anything. That behavior is only further proof. They make decisions about one’s family and life without regard to what’s morally right. As long as they have the TARP money and insurance to back fill over us, mostly hard working tax payers.
I am in the land development business and a general contractor. We built our dream home in DeLuz, CA and by the end of 2007’ my development projects had dried up mostly due to lack of funding. We went through our savings trying to maintain the house payments, I went back to work in general construction and we worked with Wells-Aurora for 8 months by ourselves and with my attorney. We became late after asking for relief for 4 months and we were finally told to bring it current and pay 3 months on time at a higher monthly payment and they may or may not consider a modification. Well we needed relief, not higher payments. So a short sale was their answer. My home valued 1.9M in 07’, 350K of our cash and 18 months of my work into it and they will now take 652K, half the note value. I’m absolutely floored and disgusted that they will take half instead working with us and now I have “flippers” looking at my home like vultures, they will be taking away all the cash and hard work we put in. I want to bulldoze this house so it is worth what Wells is asking, the land cost, grading and infrastructure. If I did not have a family I would bulldoze it you can bet on that!
I dare you to modify me. Wells, you don’t have the guts!!!! You only have the enough guts to take my tax money, my money and believe me I have paid plenty, to line your pockets and steal our dreams. The banks will get theirs in the end.
I got a loan modification. I do not have a high income but I also drive a old paid off car, no boat, Rv toys, I did not outlandishly decorate my home. I did not use my house as an ATM machine, I do not have a lot of expensive jewelry,no lavish vacations, barely dine out, color my own hair, do my own nails etc etc. It can be done!

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