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The Basics

What mechanics hope you don't know

If you're changing your oil every 3,000 miles and you can't remember the last time you looked at your owner's manual, you may be spending more than you need to.

By MarketWatch

Here's a secret that mechanics don't want you to know: You really don't need to have your oil changed every 3,000 miles.

It's a waste of a precious resource -- not to mention money -- to take your car in every 3,000 miles or three months, experts say. Most cars don't need an oil change for 7,500 miles.

"The oil change itself is a loss leader," said Austin Davis, whose family has been in the car-maintenance business in Houston since 1937.

He's the author of "What Your Car Mechanic Doesn't Want You to Know" and has a website called MyHonestMechanic.com.

"Most repair shops will lose money or at best break even on a $25 to $28 oil change," he said. "The whole idea is to get you to also buy an air filter, rotate your tires or buy something else while you're there."

Complaints about auto repairs consistently rank among the top 10 grievances filed to state attorneys general, according to the National Association of Attorneys General. In 2008, the latest figures available, auto repair complaints ranked No. 6 on the list.

Because car manufacturing has become so sophisticated and less reliant on human intervention -- more computers and technology are producing and installing parts, for example -- the car-repair business isn't as robust as it was 10 or even five years ago.

"The easiest way to make up for money that you're losing or to increase profits is to turn up the upsell button on all your services," said Philip Reed, the senior consumer-advice editor for Edmunds.com. "Mechanics want you to get brake jobs earlier than you need them or change oil filters more frequently."

Sometimes, however, we are our worst enemies when it comes to explaining what is wrong with the car and giving away too much information. "Never reveal your budget," said Davis. "If there's steam pouring out of the hood of your Mercedes, don't tell the guy 'I hope this isn't going to cost me $2,000.'

"He'll be thinking, 'How about $1,995,'" he said.

There are no hard-and-fast rules about maintaining cars because they're all different. But experts do agree on this: You should use your car manual as your guide. It will tell you at what mileage mark the oil should be changed or the transmission fluids flushed and what intervals that maintenance should follow as well as a host of other upkeep tips.

"If there's a conflict between what the owner's manual recommends and what the dealer recommends, follow the owner's manual," said Reed. "The manufacturer made the car; they should know what it takes to maintain it and keep it running."

Pay attention to the warranty packages. Cars known for dependability will guarantee parts for as many as 70,000 miles. That's almost the equivalent of driving around the earth three times.

"Cars today are just so well made that the failure rates of parts is close to nil," Davis said.

But long before you need to turn the keys over to a mechanic, find one who is trustworthy and with whom you can build a long-lasting relationship.

"If you develop a relationship with your mechanic, you're much less likely to be ripped off," said Brandy Schaffels, the content manager for the TrueCar website. "They'll go out of their way to help you." She had a mechanic who built an air-conditioner compressor by hand at a substantial savings over buying a new one.

"If your instinct tells you that what they're telling you doesn't sound right, double-check it with another mechanic," she said.

Go in prepared. Edmunds.com has a plethora of educational and how-to categories on its site. Davis compiled a maintenance schedule for a variety of cars. See the list here.

Schaffels also recommended purchasing a device that can plug into the car's port and diagnose why the check-engine or brake light is on; that part is available at do-it-yourself car-parts stores.

Other sites such as MotorTrend, 2CarPros.com and 10w40.com can expand a car novice's vocabulary and know-how as well.

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Here's a primer that will help you from getting scammed by mechanics.

"Be wary of inspections," Davis said. A 40,000-mile inspection package at $400, for example, will call for a check on everything from the oil and brake pads to the door hinges.

"You pay them $400 to tear your car apart and look for additional repairs to sell you," Davis said. "That's a great business model right there."

You don't need to replace or flush transmission fluids until 25,000 to 30,000 miles. Some cars won't need the transmission fluids touched for 50,000 to 60,000 miles and some manufacturers are moving toward using fluid that never needs to be replaced.

Look at the brake pads yourself before committing to new pads and think about changing them yourself. "It's a really well-kept secret that changing a brake pad is pretty easy," Reed said. "People get freaked out with brakes thinking that if they don't do it correctly, the car won't stop. If there's a problem with your brakes, you'll know right away."

Don't fret either if the mechanic says the brakes are about 50% worn down. They don't need to be replaced until they're 85% to 90% worn.

Continued: Ask for the replaced parts

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77Comments
8/30/2011 2:31 PM
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Also, one way to be sure what the check engine light means. Get a code reader for your car and plug it in and then Google the code. This way you know exactly what you're talking the car in for. They used to be expensive but I got mine about a year ago for $80. The cheapest insurance policy I ever bought!
8/30/2011 2:22 PM
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Not all bad info, but the motor oil viscosity seriously breaks down at 7500 miles so if you find yourself like I do with life getting in the way and you put it off another few hundred miles or so, you risk doing serious damage to your engine and boom your in the repair shop for a new transmission or engine rebuild. My car starts running sluggish at about 5000 miles on the oil, so this is when I think about changing the oil. You know the sluggish car feeling and you know your car. I dont redline my car nor push my oil to the brink of failure. Also regarding one of the most important parts of your car, the breaks, one time I had this gut feel that I should take care of the breaks although it should have been able to go another 5000 miles. Good thing I did, because it fell apart upon removal. Trust your gut.  
12/30/2010 12:53 AM
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OK, Here is the deal.  The author Austin C. Davis is a marketing person that has over 100 websites and his business is making money selling insurance in the internet world.  Google his name,  We cannot trust his information and shame on MSN for not doing their research. 




12/27/2010 7:16 PM
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The 3,000 mile recommendation is more for the oil filter than the oil.  If you take your oil filter off at 3,000 miles and dirty oil spills over the top why on Gods green earth would you think its a good idea to go more than 3,000 miles?  Seriously?  You are better off replacing the oil filter (and adding oil) than changing the oil if you are going to neglect either of the two.

12/27/2010 6:04 PM
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What MSN writers don't want you to know:
1- I Googled all the info for this article.
2- I'm unable to do any basic tasks of any kind for myself, thus my distaste for anyone who makes a living with the skills I don't have.
3- I have zero real-world experience in the field I'm writing about.
4- I have zero real-world experience in journalism. 
5- If it weren't for that nifty spell-checker thingy......
12/27/2010 1:49 PM
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I started working on my own vehicles about 12 years ago. Got sick and tired of the so called pro’s ripping me off or having to do the work twice because of their incompetence. I’m not saying all mechanics are BAD… but just about everyone I have encountered except for one or two have left an extremely bad taste in my mouth! To be honest I have been a car guy all my life and to do basic repairs yourself such as tie rod ends, fluid changes, brakes, shocks, wheel bearings, and exhaust are very easy. Anyone with a basic set of tools and a little mechanical knowledge can do it!

 

To comment on the extended drain intervals that some manufactures are recommending is just a ploy by the federal government to save on resources. My new Cadillac requires a 12-14k drain interval if I go by the little computer (yea right). BMW is now recommending 15k oil changes as well. I have seen multiple BMW’s and Cadillac’s already having sludge issues because of this. In my opinion if you are running synthetic motor oil you can do up to 7000 miles or one year but you have to make sure to check the oil level routinely. And for anyone to say the transmission oil is lifetime is an absolute joke. BMW got burned on this not long ago when lots of catastrophic transmission failures started to occur around the 120k mark in their cars. This obviously generated some press which hurt the image and they have now clarified that lifetime actually means 100k. I recommend changing transmission fluid every 30-35k miles. Come on this is the second most expensive asset you own. If you maintain it well it will reward you!

12/27/2010 12:23 PM
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it also has a lot to do with how you treat your vehicle or may be the brandname, i've have a 2002 Chevrolet truck with 300 thousand miles and replaced the flue pump once ,oil every 3000 miles and she drives great.
12/27/2010 9:38 AM
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Great article!  I've found that about 1 out of 5 mechanics in my area are not trying to rip you off.  I recently had a local shop mark up a fuel pump $400 over retail when they replaced mine.  You're at their mercy when it's been towed and on the lift.  I've seen the fuel cap trick several times with friends and recently my mother in law was quoted $1400 to change a CV joint (axle) on her honday.  It took me 45 minutes to do it my self and a brand new axle cost me $75.    That's almost $30/minute!  The most valuable tool for outing these crooks is to report your story and review them on google reviews, citysearch, yelp etc.

12/27/2010 2:00 AM
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And Mr Reed (Edmunds)... your full of crap too if you believe the b.s. your spewing in this article. That or maybe you better find a new mechanic! And who gets $400 for a 40,000 mile "inspection package?!?!" What kind of inspection is that. I wanna work there!!! Sheesh! We only get $21 bucks!! And the state gets part of that! And I'd love to meet anyone who gets a 10% "penalty premium" for "rude customers" out here. Knowing all this, I could make a fortune!!! And the day you find a regular customer with no tech savvy that can figure out whats wrong with their car just using a device that can plug into the car's 'port' (i love that one! LEARN THE TERMINOLOGY at least!!) and diagnose why the check-engine (or BRAKE LIGHT) is on, I'll retire, I swear!! C'MON PEOPLE!!! Who are you gonna trust? A bunch of so called "experts" and "analysts" who probably have tried to change their halogen fluid at some point or another, or the men (and women) that have been in the auto repair biz long enough to know the difference between smart and stupid?!?!?
12/27/2010 1:49 AM
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this is seriously about the most retarded article ever. maybe the writter to this, should go and work in a shop for awhile be he/she tries to give any advice on automotive repairs.
12/27/2010 12:39 AM
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this article is a load of crap... not every mechanic is out there to completely rape customers... put it this way if you buy a mercedes, expect to pay more than someone who owns a honda. if you don't have the money to fix a high end car... don't buy it... the legal limit for brake pad lining is 2/32 due to the fact that the closer the lining gets to the backing plate of the pad, the more stress and heat is applied to the adhesive that holds the two together... this causes warpage and pulsations that are felt through the brake pedal under braking conditions... i however agree with not needing to change oil every 3k depending on the engine... certain cars have very small bearing clearances that require very clean oil to prevent sludge from building up... there's another factor, the quality of the oil filter... these jiffy lube and fram oil filters are junk... the higher the quality for the oil filter, the more particulates it can filter out for longer periods of time, a cheap filter will get used up very quickly and then the cleaning agents within the oil can no longer perform their duties.... most cars are good on oil for 5k-7k... most mechanics will write up-sell on vehicles based on service history or recommended service per mileage... i will not write up a vehicle for anything it does not need, primarily because i wouldn't want someone to do the same to myself... the best thing a customer can do, is make an effort to better understand their vehicle and the inevitable fact that cars break and require service,  the funny thing is most of these things can be avoided by "preventive maintenance." i just think before people write articles like this they should survey mechanics from different shops, ranging from small shops to large dealerships...
12/27/2010 12:36 AM
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I don't see the shops as being scammers... they're just too damn expensive for me.  You can go on ebay and get the FACTORY manual... not a chiltons or haynes, the factory 2000 page manual for $10 on a cd and it will tell you just about anything.. whether you can handle doing it is up to you.  brakes=piece of cake.  1/3 the price and you'll be done in a few hours, not spending all day in the shop.  and wheel bearings?  you can press them out... even though they say you cant...  they just want you to buy a $100 hu****ust get the $5 bearing and a harbor freight table top press.

12/27/2010 12:13 AM
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In response to the article's first part about servicing your vehicle every three thousand miles is a waste: Oil never goes bad, just the other chemicals inside of oil. And oil gets recycled. As an aside: the only time you don't need to take your car in every three whatever is when you check the oil yourself and make sure it isn't getting low on oil.

12/26/2010 11:56 PM
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It is true, some mechanics are good, some are bad, some shops are good, some shops are bad.  You have good mechanics working in bad shops and you have bad mechanics working in good shops.  There is also the honesty factor, I can repeat the above sentence using the honesty issue, but I won't bore you.

 

What I will do is give some examples of bad / dishonest and some good / honest, why just to show that we are all humans and it doesn't matter what the profession is, we will get "screwed" by some and "blessed" by others.

 

Bad - Dishonest:

Example 1:  I bought a 1978 Honda Civic from a stranger for $800 back in 1987.  I took it to a Honda dealership to have the brakes inspected & repaired/replaced, new tires put on, a tune-up done, and a four wheel alignment for a grand cost of $1000.  This DEALERSHIP replaced my pads and never bothered to tell me that the disc and rotors were really bad.  My new pads were eaten up in two weeks.  They did the tune-up on this four cylinder engine knowing that one of the sparkplug wires was bad.  When I tried to start it in the parking lot, it ran even worse then when I had brought it in.  They can't fake the new tires, but they sure faked the wheel alignment.  I went in and complained about all of this, their attitude was this: "here is a sparkplug wire free of charge".

 

Example 2:  I applied for a managerial position for one of those transmission franchises.  I made it through the first two interviews and was then interviewed by the head honcho for that particular region of the country.  After spouting off about loyalty to the company for a half hour, he closed the door, then asked me the following question: "Can you sell parts/services to a customer even if he doesn't need them in order to meet the required profit level."  Needless to say, I said NO!!!!  If I had had any proof that he had said that, it would have been splattered on the front page of every newspaper in the country.

 

Good / Honest

Example 1:  I have had quite a few shops tell me that what I thought was wrong with the car was wrong and that the repair would only cost a portion of what my repair would have costs.

 

Example 2:  I even had mechanics who would show me how to to a repair, then I would go home and do the repair myself.

 

Example 3:  My late wife and I used a particular garage on a regular basis, enough that we were on a first name basis with them.  Both of our cars were old and needed frequent repairs and maintenance, so I went out and bought all the parts and was planning to do the repairs myself.  My wife fell ill with cancer and with the cars barely running, I went to the garage and explained it all, they agreed to use my parts and do the maintenance and repairs for me.  On top of that, when I went to pay the bill (which would have been almost half a grand), they refused to take my money, telling me to take that $500 and take my wife on a weekend trip.

 

So folks, I can go on and on.  You will find both good and bad, just take the time to look for them.  Ask around, ask your coworkers and relatives.  If we boycotted the bad shops by not going to them, they would go out of business :)

 

p.s.  What attracted me to this issue was that my girlfriend and I argued over about how often to change the oil.  The answer my mechanic friends have told me was: "3000 miles if you have an older worn engine, live or drive in a dusty or dirty area, are hard on your engine, or have a particular make/model that is not as well built".  They also said that the oil change should be at 4000-5000 miles as long as none of the above apply, and that the oil filter should then be changed each time you change the oil.

12/26/2010 11:08 PM
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To poster HRBerth.... there's three sides to every story: Your side, their side, and the truth.  I bet there's so much more to your story that we couldn't even begin to know what the actual problem is.
12/26/2010 11:00 PM
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There is a ton of misinformation in this article.  I'm sure the author's intentions are good, but she really needs to visit more sources for her information.  Either that, or she needs to not cherry-pick those that sound most astounding to her readers.  I've been in the automotive repair business for 20 years, and I'm going to give you the actual key to getting the best auto service you can get:  Don't jump all over town trying to find the best deal and visiting a place just because they offer you a coupon.  Build a rapport with a high quality repair facility, and stick with them (this can be a dealer OR independent shop).  Ask questions (about the car, that is).  Read your owner's manual (the least-read publication printed yearly).  Some vehicles DO still require a 3000-mile oil change. Excess oxygen in your gas tank IS NOT EVEN MEASURED.  I'm not sure how that would even be possible!  The terrain and your driving habits dictate more about your scheduled maintenance and routine maintenance than any manual or article on MSN will tell you, so be honest with your repair facility and interview them about your vehicle's needs.  They should interview you on how the vehicle is used most often (stop-n-go vs. highway, etc.).  Once you've both established this relationship, it should be smooth.  Please shop for VALUE more than price.  If your oil change costs $5 more at your 'regular mechanic,' then it's probably because they're using better quality parts and a higher-trained technician to do that job.
12/26/2010 10:49 PM
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I't just bugs me that people listen to these articles and then take their cars to a mechanic and expect us to do miracles to their cars after so much negligence to their cars...oil changes, trans service is a must if you want your vehicle to be in good driving condition..then they call us cheaters and rip-offs when they find out their cars are messed up!
12/26/2010 10:35 PM
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I have always kept my cars for excessive ownership up to 25 years. The major problem none of the other writers mentioned is the chassis & body parts. I've had to paint & repair the body several times during extended ownership. The rear frame wouls always ultimately rot & a welder would have to add more metal to it. The body mounts would rust completely. Body mounts hold the chaissis onto the frame. Both these are mandatory State inspection issues

 

Parts for my old cars are hard to find. Parts unique to the model have to be found in the junk yards. Most cars are melted after time parts get scare. My current mechanin won't service this care because of that.

 

I find more trust & honesty in a local community mechanic shop. These businesses have local owners who have a financial stake in retaining their customers. You go to a franchise auto repair shop and the labor charge is based on a published book showing the time it will take to complete the repair. If it says 2 hours to change my radiator that's what they charge you. If the technician gets done in 1.5 hours he receives an incentive in his pay. Meanwhile he's working on another car you're paying for.

 

My advise is to take some pride in your ride * your car will last longer.  

12/26/2010 10:24 PM
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To all of the technicians,,that share my point of view about listening to your mechanic,,and to take care of your vehicle,,thankyou,,because I thought I was alone.MSN has really outdone themselves this time with this article.This has got to be,,the biggest pile of trash I have ever read.All they have accomplished,is feeding all of the vehicle owners a lot of really bad information,that unfortunately is going to cost them dearly.They will get the idea,that they don't have to maintain their vehicle and they are going to be the ones who suffer.Their car or truck will break down prematurely,,and they will sit back and scratch their heads and wonder what went wrong."Well,,MSN,told us we didn't have to listen to our repair facilities,,so,,,we didn't",,,I wonder if MSN is going to pick up the tab for the repairs.I hope MSN,,sees the error of their ways,,,and fires the author of this article.
12/26/2010 9:36 PM
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What a lot of these so call experts seem to fail to realize is that the oil itself does not breakdown itself unless extreme use, it's that the oil gets contaminated with byproducts and those byproducts are what does the wear and tear on the engine.  That is why you should change the oil every 3k miles or so.
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