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Liz Pulliam Weston

The Basics

Frugal or tight: Where's the line?

Former spendthrifts might be the world's biggest cheapskates, but lifelong savers are hardly immune to going to miserly extremes.

By Liz Pulliam Weston
MSN Money

Blogger J.D. Roth knew exactly when he crossed the line from frugal to cheap. His readers told him.

Roth, who writes the Get Rich Slowly blog, described his attempt to lower the cost of his favorite gourmet hot cocoa mix by using two tablespoons instead of the recommended three. Yes, the flavor suffered, he noted, but he saved 29 cents per cup.

Enough already, many of his regular readers responded.

"They said, 'J.D., you're on the edge. You're being cheap,'" Roth said.

My editor has a theory that the tightest tightwads are converts like Roth who find frugality belatedly after driving their finances into the ground. My editor's idea is that FCs (frugality converts) are more likely to try weird or extreme stuff than us BFs (born frugals).

(Yes, I know, nobody's actually born frugal. But some of us came to it so early, due to training and our own temperaments, that we might as well have been.)

I, on the other hand, contend that we BFs can go overboard in our efforts to save money, too. And there's a certain kind of BF -- a subspecies I call the secret millionaires -- who really take frugality to extremes.

How tight is too tight?

First, let's settle on definitions. What might seem perfectly normal to one "frugalite" (washing sandwich bags, say, or Dumpster diving) might seem beyond the pale to another. So how do you know when you've gone too far? I'd say tight is too tight when you:

  • End up spending more because you opted for cheap when quality mattered.

  • Pay too high a cost in discomfort, irritation or any serious reduction in your quality of life.

I point to the first time I bought a new car (which I did with cash, of course). It was a Saturn SL1 -- a "frugalista" fleet vehicle if ever there was one -- and I refused to pay for electric windows or electric locks.

Now, some posters on the Your Money message board think electric windows and locks are overrated. These thrifty folks are clearly part of my tribe. But my decision to save a few hundred bucks caused me continuing irritation and regret, especially as a reporter who often drove through bad neighborhoods realizing, too late, that she'd forgotten to lock all her doors.

Cheap, not frugal: A pitfall for the newbie

But that example is clearly outdone by Your Money message board poster "hapaai," who confesses to ruining three -- count 'em, three -- vehicle engines after skimping on oil changes.

"The first time that I did this, I was 20," hapaai wrote. "The second time that I did this, I was 23. (Same car, different engine.) I did it again when I was 40. Why can't I get it through my skull that forgetful people should not try to stretch oil changes?"

Video on MSN Money

Expenses NOT to trim © MoneyTalks
Expenses NOT to trim
Though times are tough, there are some expenses that you're better off paying. Learn where you might be able to safely cut back and where you shouldn't even try.

Hapaai's theory is that BFs "can segue into occasional or permanent miserliness but the reformed frugal are much more likely to suffer the bite of cheap."

"My frugality is not an innate thing and it's not tempered by practice," hapaai wrote. "I frequently shoot way past frugal and into the land of the cheap."

That land has been visited by several other FCs on the board, who professed regret at buying cut-rate tools and appliances.

"It took buying 3 cheap vacuums in 3 years to finally do some research and find one that while it cost more has actually lasted me 5 years (so far, still working great)," poster "Giggle Loop" wrote. "If I break that down to cost per year, the more expensive vacuum has been cheaper and less hassle than replacing a cheap one regularly."

Continued: Their inner miser

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1 - 10 of 74
Thursday, July 09, 2009 4:44:40 AM

I thought everybody washed plastic storage bags.

Liz, the last paragraph says it all.  "If you ain't having fun, don't even bother getting out of bed in the morning."

Of course each of us must be allowed to define our own fun.

Ed Cabaniss

Holden Beach,NC

Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:18:21 AM
Frugal is when you use creativity, inspiration and passion to create wealth for self and others.  For example, the gardener lovingly tending his herbs and fresh tomatoes, the home cook who saves her family from salt, fat and atrocious quality, the gifted seamstress who can remake anything from drab to wow and extend the life of the ancient but well-made article, the person who always knows ten odd ways to make a quick honest buck in the hard times and tells others too.

Tight is, the person who steals the condiments in the restaurant and stiffs the waiter while paying 200% of what the meal would cost to make, the person who neglects their teeth and loses them, the person who cheaps out on car maintainance and drives a deathmobile.

We've all been both and it pays to watch out for reoccuring sins.

Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:23:38 AM
I would argue that Emma Howe was stingy, not just frugal.  My husband's aunt and uncle once took us out to eat.  They do very well and lay down money for whatever suits them.  After the bill came, my husband's uncle (by marriage) left a $5 tip for a party of six.  We had been wondering why the service was so awful, and found out that the aunt and uncle frequent this place.  They obviously are notorious!  We don't go out with them anymore, and I encourage anyone leaving a tip to be generous.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 6:41:38 AM

Both my wife and I grew up well below the poverty level, so we know how to be BF's or down right cheapSad, but through a little luck, a lot of hard work (we started at 16) and education (I have 3 MS degrees) we are now middle class millionaires.   We no longer need to live cheap, or even particularly frugal, and we don't.  We drive very nice cars, live in a nice home, eat out a couple of times a week. 

 

Yes, we still spend less than we earn, (the first rule for becoming rich), but we enjoy the fruits of our labors.  I did not work hard to get where I am to live like I was still poor.

Thursday, July 09, 2009 7:46:07 AM
My brother's (accountant) gas grill just died; $50 to replace the rusted grates; buys a $79 gas grill instead (I just spent $279 on my Weber Q220 w/ cart). A $79 gas grill. I'm sorry, that's not frugal, that's cheap and foolish. First time they used it was fourth of July w/ family over- the grate is so cheap and flimsy the burgers fell through, everything got burned, the shrimp was like rubber.  My $229 Weber has a 25lb grate that will last years and years; their $79 grill will be trashed in 2 years and it really wasn't all that fun to have the Fourth of July lunch / dinner burned and ruined. Yea, when your "frugality" takes the fun out of life and becomes a twisted source of self-esteem and pride (my sister-in-law, with a satisfied look "we only paid $79 for it!!"), you're over the line.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:09:17 AM
"Take only what you need and leave the rest." Of course, that depends on what you view as needs vs. wants. I've lived in lean and plenty times - plenty is more fun!!! Just don't be a PIG.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 9:30:55 AM
There's a difference between buying quality on sale, like a refurb, and just plain buying cheap. It doesn't take much effort or shopping to buy cheap.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 10:41:40 AM

Haha! I love the thing about the TV... I'm the same way! I want a flat screen and my fiance is DYING (or at least thinks he is!) for one but I refuse to get one while ours is working. We thought the sound was going on it and we were so excited, but it was just a glitch LOL. We don't have the money for one anyway...

 

I notice that people who have to be frugal now that weren't before seem to have cheap and frugal mixed up. I went grocery shopping with a friend (which shows a change in the economy - we used to go clothes shopping for fun LOL). She mentioned that she never understood how I could be so "cheap" all the time but now she was doing the same thing. So I asked her what I did that was cheap and she said comparing prices before buying instead of just getting name brands and clipping coupons... I couldn't believe that was her definition of cheap!

 

I will admit that I did something pretty cheap this last month. I was in a wedding and because I just had a baby I didn't get my bridesmaid dress until a week before the wedding. It was a pretty casual wedding so it was a cocktail dress from JC Penney. I carefully removed the tags while leaving the plastic string on it and then put the tags back on after the wedding and returned it... I only wore it for like 3 hours! It was only $25 because it was half off but we are BROKE so I couldn't help it! I consider that cheap because I feel like I cheated the system or ripped off the store.   

Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:09:00 AM
Just remember, you can't take it with you.
Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:03:17 PM

When I talk about this it is the difference between frugal and cheep.  Frugal is getting what you need at the best price.  Cheep is paying the lowest price no matter what.  I purchased a 60" DLP TV new (store return) for $600.  It was a quality set and cost half of the original price.  I paid an extra $100 for an extended warranty.  I got a quality name brand TV for less than most bottom of the line new 40" LCD's.  Even in this case it could have been costly because of the light but I checked and the light has a 2000 hour life, is designed to be replaced by the owner and costs less than $100.  I also found out that with a DLP when you replace the bulb it is like new where 50% of the LCD's quality is gone within 7 years.  That was frugal.  I got quality at an excellent price.  Cheep is keeping an outdated set and having to pay for a converter, antenna, etc. to keep it going.  In the short run it doesn't cost as much but in the long run it isn't worth the effort.

 

Just like skimping on maintenance for a car.  In the short run it is less costly but you will need to replace the car more often.  The last two cars I have purchased lasted 12 years each with regular maintenance.  Now, I could have purchased new cars every 3 or 4 years with less maintenance but  I didn't have a car payment for most of those 12 years and I didn't need to carry full coverage insurance.  I wonder which would save me more.   That's frugal.

1 - 10 of 74
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