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Safety regulators slap Toyota

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says the automaker misled the public about a possible defect problem.

Posted by Charley Blaine on Thursday, November 5, 2009 1:45 PM

Normally, automakers and federal safety regulators say nice things about each other, or as little as possible.

 

But regulators are annoyed with Toyota Motor (TM), No. 2 in U.S. auto sales and tops in the world.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration rebuked Toyota for issuing "inaccurate and misleading" statements asserting that no defect exists in the 3.8 million vehicles it recalled after a Lexus sedan accelerated out of control in suburban San Diego, Calif., killing four people.

 

The NHTSA pointed noted that the recalled Toyota and Lexus vehicles do have an "underlying defect" that involves the design of the accelerator pedal and the driver's foot well.

 

Toyota officials have said they believe the Aug. 28 accident, and other uncontrolled-acceleration incidents across the country, occurred after the gas pedal became entrapped in an improperly installed floor mat.

In formal recall notices being mailed out this week, Toyota asks customers to remove the driver's-side mats.

 

Separately, the company issued a statement Monday saying its recall letter "confirms that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."

 

Toyota also posted a video statement disputing news reports that unintended acceleration may be related to other factors, such as electronic throttle control systems.

 

That prompted the NHTSA to issue a clarification.

 

"Safety is the No. 1 priority for NHTSA, and this is why officials are working with Toyota to find the right way to fix this very dangerous problem," the statement said.

"This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle-based solution."

 

The statement is unusual and threatens to dent Toyota's credibility just as it seeks to assure customers that its vehicles are safe.

 

In response to the NHTSA statement, Toyota said it was "never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information."

The Toyota statement added that it was still developing "vehicle-based" remedies to prevent unintended acceleration events, in which motorists say their vehicles suddenly speed out of control.

 

Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons suggested last month that these remedies might include changes in the placement of the pedals, or a change to the engine control software in the vehicles' onboard computers.

 

On Wednesday, however, Lyons declined to comment on any specific fixes.

 

Toyota announced the voluntary recall Sept. 29, one month after a 2009 Lexus ES 350 sped out of control on a suburban San Diego highway, killing California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, his wife, Cleofe Lastrella, their daughter Mahala and Chris Lastrella, Cleofe's brother.

 

The incident drew widespread public attention because the final moments were captured as Chris Lastrella made a frantic 911 call describing Saylor's futile efforts to stop the car, which crashed through an embankment and burned.

 

The accident and recall prompted Toyota President Akio Toyoda to publicly express remorse.

 

The recall affects the 2007-10 model year Toyota Camry, the 2004-09 Toyota Prius, the 2005-10 Toyota Avalon, the 2005-10 Tacoma, the 2007-10 Toyota Tundra, the 2007-10 Lexus ES 350 and the 2006-10 Lexus IS 250 and IS 350.

 

The NHTSA has investigated allegations of unwanted acceleration in Toyota vehicles eight times since 2003. Two probes, involving carpet panels in 2004 Toyota Sienna minivans, and floor mats in 2007 Lexus ES350 and 2007 Toyota Camry sedans, led to small recalls.

 

Toyota shares were up 1.3% in New York after the company reported that it had returned to profitability in its fiscal second quarter.

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Friday, November 06, 2009 5:54:52 PM
I thought floormats seemed like a B.S. excuse especially after the NHTSA announcment.  Thanks for letting us know the floormats arent the problem.  I'll be watching for you in my rearview on the freeway. 
Friday, November 06, 2009 1:29:12 PM
I am not shocked about the Toyota recalls and TSB's as I worked for a toyota dealer In Colorado.  I had 16 pages of recalls and TSB's going back to 1990.  Toyota keeps them quiet from the public until you go into a Service department and you are told about them.  I have seen engine's and Transmissions fail more than the average person would know.  Toyota also has issues with parts falling off both on the inside and outside of the complete line.  What i am saying is they are no longer what they once were. Toyota must be in bed with consumer reports.  I would not have believed it if i didn't see it for myself.
Friday, November 06, 2009 1:03:09 PM
Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign.
Friday, November 06, 2009 1:00:21 PM
The reason he didn't shift to neutral is simple . He panicked as most people do. When I was 19 I had a vw  do the same thin because I put cruise control in it an didn't secure a line properly. It was scary but I was able to maintain control and come to a stop. Fixed the problem and went on my way.
Friday, November 06, 2009 9:43:22 AM
Floor mats; who cares?  Why have three cars - dude?  Plan on selling a couple of these before this is done.  Yuppie BS; and yeah know how much this is going to hurt you debt ridden yahoos.  Speculation; sure!  Think you had better think about fastening your seatbelts....very soon. 
Friday, November 06, 2009 7:45:18 AM
I currently own 3 Toyotas. A 2007 Avalon, 2008 Avalon, & 2004 Tundra. Love every one of them. My wife and I can't figure out how this recall problem with floor mats can occur if the owner has original equipment in use. After all they do have hocks that hold them in place. We have owned a Toyota or Lexus of some kind for last 20+ years and will continue to do so. GREAT VEHICLES
Friday, November 06, 2009 7:45:18 AM

Like a lot of other people, I heard the 911 tape on the news. Pretty hairy stuff but my immediate reaction was to wonder why the guy didn't step on the brake. Or turn the car off. Or push the gear selector into neutral. Why would he take the time to talk on the phone while the car was "accelerating out of control". The braking system on these cars is far more powerful and effecient than the engine. If you doubt it, go out to your car and STAND on the brake pedal and press the gas. As freaked out as this guy was he would've pushed the brake hard enough to bend the lever. The gear selector is even easier. The engine would race and sound as though it would blow up, but who cares? If it's a choice between going down the highway at 110 miles an hour or having to argue about it with Lexus, I'll take the warranty claim every time. Just saying.

Friday, November 06, 2009 7:44:20 AM

FL_FLASH, may be GM and Chysler need to stop exporting work overseas to produce true American-build cars? Most of the components in these cars are foreign-made.

 

The other problems you mentioned are unrelated to this Toyota problem. BTW, they have a lot of manufacturing plants in the US and have US workers. See the reference below for more details:

http://www.toyota.com/about/our_business/operations/manufacturing/

 

Friday, November 06, 2009 7:40:38 AM

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/index.htm

 

Check the Consumer Reports reliability ratings WS6 Trans Am. This is an independent organization receiving independent (and verified) feedback from consumers. Toyota's quality is still far better than GM and Chysler. Ford is the only automaker making tremendous improvements in their quality. I have owned 4 GM cars in succession, including a Trans Am, and they were complete crap in terms of quality. I've have a complete loss of brakes due to a blown fuse with was designed to control both ABS and hydralic pump (bad design), a computer chip malfunctioned twice (and 2 different chips) taking out the entire engine and braking system, and the intake was made of plastic which collapsed due to normal usage.

 

This floor mat problem is sad but IMHO could have been avoided by the driver. Just because one of the driver's killed was a police officer does not necessarily make that person a good driver.

Friday, November 06, 2009 7:35:01 AM
They are the Toyota mats. No where have I seen a recall of a product involving a non-OEM add on part. I was told, as I said earlier, that the issue is people stacking the mats and/or the mat retention clips either breaking, being removed or the mat not being clipped into them.

I think this is potentially overblown if it turns out to be the above issues. Toyota can't stop idiots from not using the clips or stacking the mats. It's like people removing the guards on table saws and then complaining when they get cut. Properly installed, you can still get cut on a table saw. It's just a whole lot harder...
Friday, November 06, 2009 7:31:41 AM
First the issue as it was described to me involves two things: 1) People stacking the rubber all-weather floor mats on top of the carpeted floor mats and 2) people not hooking the floor mat (either kind) to the clips in the floor, or the clips breaking and not being replaced.

Stacking the mats is warned against by a label that is stuck to the rubber floor mats (for the Prius that I just bought) so if people can't read then it is a personal problem.

It also doesn't matter where the vehicle was built as any vehicle can have a problem. Especially in these days for more computer control over the operation of the engine. The Prius is very computer controlled, including the brakes and to some extent evidently the steering. One bug in that programming and you have the potential for death and mayhem. Perhaps we are getting to the point where our cars are getting too complicated and the manufacturers need to dial it back a bit.

Regarding Japanese companies lying? Oh, and they lie more than US companies? I'm sure... In the end, Japanese companies do have honor and the leaders take it seriously. They resign. Ohh how many people wish the deadwood in the US auto industry had walk out the door in stead of running their companies into the ground...

Friday, November 06, 2009 7:27:40 AM

The significant thing here is Toyota's attempt to evade responsibility. I have owned 9 new Toyota vehicles in the last 20+ years.  Currently I have a 2006 Avalon and 2006 RAV4.  Both vehicles had problems that the dealer service department claimed were my imagination when I first took them in for repair.  I did some on line research and discovered Toyota issued "Technical Service Bulletins" for both problems. Printed out the bulletins and magic - the service departments performed the required repairs.  Toyota had never notified me of the potential problems and they sure know how to contact me with their marketing literature.  They are like every other business = all about profit so do not trust a word they say!

Thursday, November 05, 2009 10:23:24 PM

two comments on floor mats.

The article never says that the floor mats were Toyota's

or the owners.  When Toyota says it recommends that people remove after market mats, that is intended to get people to think that the mats were not Toyota's.  A clever way to get people to imagine that it was only after market mats that caused the problem.   Some readers bit on this decepton.

Imagine with the old Pintos, if Ford said "we recommend not using high octane gas".  Would that lead some people to believe that it was the kind of gas and not the gas tank.?

Second, if after market mats were the only problem, then we would expect most or all car brands to develop this problem.  But they don't.  So that says that others have correctly designed their cars to avoid the potential hazard.

Thursday, November 05, 2009 10:14:52 PM

60orso says that the driver made the 911 call.

NO the article said A PASSANGER made the call.

Read it again.

#15
Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:15:01 PM
I see some comments here about a police officer driving.  They seem to imply that a police officer is a better driver and knows what to do in an emergency driving situation.  I find this very humorous.



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