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MP Dunleavey

Women In Red

Are you the family bailout fund?

If you've saved well and others haven't, should you feel obligated to shell out on their behalf? Also: A nighttime retirement talk and fashionable frugality.

By MP Dunleavey
MSN Money

Note: I'm experimenting with three short topics this week -- more bang for your buck. Let me know what you think.

What do they expect?

"My mother just zinged me yet again," wrote NancyinFL on the Women in Red message board. "It seems that because DH and I live a lifestyle that is careful, frugal and paid-off, we 'owe' my brothers' kids gifts; we 'owe' it to other family members to go and visit, and when we 'fail,' my brothers call her and complain.

"They all seem to think I should spend because I can," she added.

Nancy's post provoked responses from dozens of other WIRs who are fed up with being treated like the local ATM by family members who either expect gifts (the biggest gripe) or who need the occasional bailout.

"No one on my side of the family talks to me anymore because I finally said 'No more' -- to thousands of dollars a year flowing from my bank account to theirs," wrote another WIR member.

And another: "We get targeted also," a reader said, describing how her mother-in-law expected her to let a struggling relative and his wife live in a property she owns, for less than market rent. "Since when do I have to bust my butt for someone else's benefit -- especially when that someone feels like they only need to work 25 hours a week!"

I know what it's like, too, when a family member is in financial straits. I'm helping a relative now, with $50 to $100 here and there, when I can. It's voluntary on my part; I was asked directly only once, for help with a car problem. It may not be smart (will my "supplements" create further dependence?) but I continue out of . . . guilt? . . . sympathy? . . . fear of them suffering if I don't help? Answer: all of the above.

What's outrageous is when a) the request is a demand, an expectation -- e.g., "You have more money, so you should share it" -- and b) that expectation threatens your own financial stability.

Whose fault is it when relatives expect a handout? Mine. Yours. It's your responsibility to communicate what you are and aren't willing to do. No one can make you wear a "Ms. Moneybags" label.

The 10 p.m. retirement talk

My husband and I started saving for retirement rather late in our lives -- about 10 minutes ago -- so we were way behind even before the recession hit.

And although we've become an Olympic-caliber team around daily budgeting, we haven't confronted the retirement monster in any depth since we joined our IRAs in wedded bliss.

So my worry about the depleted state of our nest egg forced me to have that Big Talk with my husband recently. My goal was to get him to take seriously the need to save more aggressively -- and inspire myself as well. (As the Women in Red know, there's no kick in the pants like camaraderie!)

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With so much turmoil in the global economy, worrying about money is understandable. MP Dunleavey explores how you can get a grip on your financial emotions and relax a bit.

Unfortunately, introducing the topic of our almost-empty nest egg at 10 p.m. was not a genius move. The cardinal rule of productive money talks is to schedule a time when you're both alert, not exhausted from work and running after a 3-year-old.

So I had to compensate for my poor timing with stealth and creativity.

We started by talking about our visions for our future, and what we thought our peers and family members were planning for their retirements. (Hint: Starting with the vision is always smart because it's more fun to talk about a move to Hawaii than mutual fund returns.)

Then, because "Honey, we need to save more" makes me sound panicky (and gets him defensive), I took a more roundabout route.

Continued: Examining our retirement needs

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Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:07:28 AM
My mother-in-law and father-in-law saved their money instead of blowing it.  My mother-in-law, now a widow, is set for the rest of her life.  Her sisters are all broke and ask why she has it so good.  She tells them that they saved their money while the sisters went to the bars every payday and no I will not give you any money.  Good for her.
Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:58:04 AM

"Please remove advertisements which have nothing to do with the story."

 

using the statistics as savings rate in the US has increased/ decreased does not make a difference to us. If any, I might skew the numbers upwards a lot because we save well over 30% every year. So don't worry about them, worry about yourself.

 

Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:28:03 AM

It's more impressive to share money with a non-family member than with a family member.   Even a hamster takes care of it's own family members but we are higher than the hamster...I hope.

Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:15:49 AM

Luckily, I don't get any grief about my finances from my family. I do have a good sized net worth, but I've both worked, and gotten lucky in investing to have it.

 

I've almost maxed out my regular 401 K contributions; I am eligible for makeup but right now, I have to show that I'm not contributing because we are trying to qualify for a loan for a house for her parents. Its a great house in a good town, and in a quiet neighborhood.

 

My wife was laid off about a month ago, so its hard qualifying for another mortgage because we are already paying a mortgage on our house. Luckily, we refinanced a few months ago, so that helps the qualification.

 

As far as we can tell, the house is already worth more than what we offered for it.

Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:25:51 AM

The savings rate has gone up, but it is most likely unnotacible to the a person who is not in retail.  It has gone up 4%, that is 1 in 25.  That mall that used to have 400 people in it now will have 384 people.  the restaurant will now have 48 instead of the 50.  Or it could also be the same 400, instead of spending 100 a piece, they may be spending 96. 
Most likely it is a combination.  You can not tell from odservation, however trended over a long period and many malls you could tell.

Example: put 300 pennies in 1 Jar, then put 288 in a same type Jar.  Shake them up and mix them around then ask someone to tell you which has more.  However if you put 30,000 in set of jars @ 300 a piece then put 28,800 in another set of jars, @ 300 a piece, anyone could tell the difference as thier would 4 jars missing. 

Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:30:03 AM

I am not sure impressing anybody should be all that important,

if you can help, I think we should.

Charity begins at home. Though there is always a possibility of enabling bad behavior, we can not never second guess the needs of family/friends in times of need.

 

Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:38:44 AM
Dave Ramsey has been preaching this for years...... nothing new.....
Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:55:08 AM
I am a single mom who works 80 hours a week to support my children. If anyone including strangers asks me for help I give it to them. My second job is at a convenience store in the evenings and on weekends and I have had numerous times where someone has come in and doesnt have money for gas or for milk or even water. I am only in this world for a short period of time and no matter how much money I make it won't mean a thing to me when I die.  I don't understand how anyone can say "So sorry. Your life handed you different circumstances so I'm gonna turn my back on you even though I have the means to help." Especially to a family member. It makes me so sad.
Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:57:22 AM
I earned , saved and had most things that money buys. However my (trusted) ex-husband made sure he got everything,every single bit of money. I began again, really poor at 40, and with a ten yr old used to living nicely. We had nothing and no one helped. My father told everyone I was a bad person altho the-ex was alcoholic and violent and practically killed our child. We managed to escape and run. Anyway. my father was busy sending donations to charities and to all his well-off relatives. They all comment on what a great guy he is.  I starved for 6 months, (rather ate one meal a day), but made sure my child was well fed. Couldn't even afford a phone call or a bus ride for fun. Today, with simple saving coupled with taking good care of money, I again have most everything I desire and my son is a fine banker. Everything is perfect. However it would have helped  if a relative had given us money, a ride or even basic food. No such luck. Today i and my adult son are well off, healthy and happy and save alot. We give generously if we think it is a good cause or just because....
Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:33:43 PM

I completely agree with the first part of this article.  Why do I have to take care of the lazy grasshopper.  I, the ant, have been living below my means so that I have a little "just in case" money.  My family would make fun of me calling me cheap but, who do you think they come crawling to when they have a financial problem?  And now with the recession I'm more frightened than ever that my family will expect me to just drain my funds to take care of everyone else.  ...I'm not immune from losing my job. 

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